Episode Transcript
This is a computer-generated transcript. While our team has reviewed it, there may be errors.
Morgan Sung: Hey guys, welcome to Close All Tabs. We had planned to bring you part two of our Spotify deep dive today. And don’t worry, we’ll get back to that next week. But there have been some developments over the past week. Basically, the last few days have been so wild that we need to talk about it. We’re actually following up on three of our previous episodes today. And joining me to help sort through all of it is our producer, Maya Cueva.
Maya Cueva: Hey Morgan!
Morgan Sung: Hey Maya. So this will be a bit of a speed round. Two quick tabs today. And as a side quest, I am going to try to make the case to you, Maya, for why I’ve stayed on Twitter, or as we now call it, X.
Maya Cueva: Yeah, please make your case, because it’s hard for me to get why anyone would want to stay on X, but I do want to understand.
Morgan Sung: I will try my best. Okay, we’ve got a few things to cover today, including what’s happening with Waymos and protest surveillance in LA. But before we get to that, we have to talk about something that happened last week. Elon Musk and Donald Trump finally broke up.
Morgan Sung: This is Close All Tabs. I’m Morgan Sung, tech journalist, and your chronically online friend, here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Let’s get into it.
Morgan Sung: Maya, are you ready?
Maya Cueva: Yeah, Morgan. Let’s open a new tab.
Morgan Sung: The Great Elon Crash Out. Back in March, we did a series on “the Broligarchy,” and more specifically, the ideology that drives tech titans like Elon Musk as they accumulate political power.
Maya Cueva: And how they might use that power to influence U.S. Policy.
News Anchor 1: We’re seeing a rise in what I guess we’ll call the “Broligarchy”.
News Anchor 2: The “Broligarchs” really have an explicit political agenda.
News Anchor 3: How do you survive the “Broligarchy”?
Morgan Sung: And nothing embodied the Broligarchy quite like the relationship between Elon Musk and President Donald Trump. And I just want to say up front, this stuff is really serious, right? Like the fact that these two men control so many levers of power and the ripple effects of their decisions have already had massive and sometimes devastating consequences — that should be a source of concern for us all. But at the same time, their personal relationship, what many have called a bromance, there’s something kind of funny about it. Like it has high school vibes. And social media has really eaten that up.
Maya Cueva: But it seems like that relationship is over, right?
Morgan Sung: It’s true. At least it is as of when we’re recording this, on Monday afternoon. After less than a year since Musk publicly endorsed Trump, the bromance is dead. Okay, let’s start right after Election Day. They were still pretty cozy back then. This was Trump in his victory speech right after winning the election.
Donald Trump: Let me tell you, we have a new star. A star is born, Elon.
Maya Cueva: And then Elon starts overseeing DOGE, right?
Morgan Sung: Right. He’s the face of the Department of Government Efficiency. And under his de facto leadership, DOGE is slashing government agencies left and right. We see mass layoffs and the dismantling of aid programs. And it’s an accounting and privacy disaster. Obviously, Trump and Musk are getting a lot of backlash over this. And we start to see cracks in the relationship.
Maya Cueva: Right, yeah, and didn’t that bizarre White House Tesla showcase happen during all of this?
Morgan Sung: Yeah, by March, Tesla stock was down by like 45%. So while Tesla is slumping as a company, Trump and Musk turned the White House lawn into a Tesla showroom. They live stream it on X and Trump makes a show of wanting to buy one. He really talks up the Cybertruck.
Donald Trump: Who else but this guy would design this, and everybody on the road is looking at it. It’s amazing, actually. As soon as I saw it, I said, that is the coolest design.
Morgan Sung: So you know how there’s always that one couple on Instagram that you know is not doing well, but they overcompensate by posting really, like, lovey-dovey captions and all that?
Maya Cueva: Ugh, yes, it’s like, why are you pretending? You’re not fooling anyone.
Morgan Sung: Okay, so I think this Tesla showcase is kind of like that. That same month, as the White House gets heat for DOGE’s actions, Trump goes on Truth Social and says that the agency heads are in charge of staffing, not Musk and DOGE. This is when the president starts to rein Musk in.
Maya Cueva: Okay, so we’ve heard that Trump and Musk are getting backlash for a lot of the actions they’re taking, especially DOGE, and Musk’s companies are suffering. And all of this seems to be creating tension, right? So when did the actual breakup happen?
Morgan Sung: Well, at the start of last month, Musk says he’s stepping back from DOGE to focus on his own companies like Tesla and SpaceX. A few weeks later, Musk goes on CBS and bashes the president’s budget proposal, what Trump calls his “Big, Beautiful Bill.” Musk says that bill increases the budget deficit and undermines DOGE’s work.
Elon Musk: I think a bill can be big or it can be beautiful, but I don’t know if it could be both.
Morgan Sung: And by the end of the month, the White House announces that Musk’s temporary role as a special government employee has ended. They host a ceremony, and the president makes this grand gesture of gifting Musk a gold key to the White house.
Donald Trump: I have given it to some, but it goes to very special people, and I thought I’d give it to Elon as a presentation from our country. Thank you, Elon. Take care. Thank you
Maya Cueva: Okay, so this seems pretty cordial to me.
Morgan Sung: You know, it’s like that part of a breakup where you tell people you’re still on good terms and you wish each other the best and you’re going to be in each other’s lives, all that. But like, we know what happens.
Maya Cueva: Oh yeah, we’ve all been there before.
Morgan Sung: Right, except these are two exceptionally powerful men. So this is where it gets really juicy.
Maya Cueva: Okay, tell me.
Morgan Sung: So a couple of days ago, Musk goes on X and starts tearing apart the bill. He says, hold on, let me pull it up. “This massive, outrageous, pork-filled congressional spending bill is a disgusting abomination. Shame on those who voted for it. You know you did wrong. You KNOW it.” And Trump tells reporters that Musk is upset because the bill would end tax credits for electric vehicles. And then these guys just start going at it.
Maya Cueva: Wait, so what happened? Can you break it down for me?
Morgan Sung: This is why I say I will never leave the app, because as bad as it gets, there are still days when everyone comes out of hibernation and just starts posting. And this includes Elon Musk. So he starts firing off at Trump on X. First, he says that Trump would have lost the election without him. Trump goes to Truth Social, and he says Musk went crazy after he was asked to leave the White House. He threatens to cut Musk’s government subsidies and contracts.
Maya Cueva: And I’m guessing Elon Musk didn’t take that well.
Morgan Sung: Oh, not at all. Musk goes nuclear. He runs back to X and posts something that makes everyone’s jaw drop. He claims that the president is in the Epstein files.
Maya Cueva: What?
Morgan Sung: Yeah. So it’s worth noting that Trump was once publicly friends with the pedophile and sex trafficker, Jeffrey Epstein. But he hasn’t been implicated in any of the investigations into Epstein or his accomplices.
Maya Cueva: So it can’t get worse than that, right?
Morgan Sung: He kept going. In another post, Musk says that the tariffs will cause a recession. And then he reposts someone else who says that Trump should be impeached and replaced with JD Vance. So this is all what people are calling a “generational crash out.” Were you seeing any of this?
Maya Cueva: Honestly, Morgan, not the full back and forth. Like I got the condensed version from IG Reels, reacting to them fighting. And I saw some funny responses like when AOC quoted Azealea Banks.
Reporter: Any quick reaction on what’s going on with Elon Musk and President Trump on Twitter right now.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: Oh man, the girls are fighting, aren’t they?
Morgan Sung: This is the reason I’m still on this hellish app. There were so many good memes about this breakup. Like there’s this one where someone posted a picture of Trump and Musk together and then captioned it with the lyrics from the Bon Iver song, Skinny Love, classic breakup song. We’ve all been there.
Maya Cueva: Yeah.
Morgan Sung: Or someone else posted this edit mashing up a scene from the Diary of a Wimpy Kid Movie, and Driver’s License by Olivia Rodrigo.
Diary of a Wimpy Kid Movie: You broke my hand and you didn’t even seem sorry. That broken hand was the best thing that ever happened to you.
Morgan Sung: And they captioned it, “the two most powerful men in the country on a random Thursday.”.
Maya Cueva: That’s hilarious.
Morgan Sung: I’ll tell you about one example that really sent me. Maya, are you familiar with old man yaoi?
Maya Cueva: Wait no, what is that?
Morgan Sung: So this is one of those very online, deep internet things, so just stay with me here. Old man yaoi is kind of like a jokey fan fiction trope. Yaoi is this Japanese term that refers to gay male relationships in manga and anime. Sometimes it’s called BL, or boy’s love, and people will also tag fan fiction as yaoi.
Old man yaoi is this term for older male characters, and naturally, Because the internet is the way it is, there is a lot of tongue-in-cheek old man yaoi about Trump. Wait, really? Last year, there was a lot of enemies-to-lovers old man yaoi about Trump and former President Joe Biden. And now, there is old man yaoi about Trump and Musk. Can I read you an excerpt that I saw on X during the great crash out?
Maya Cueva: I guess. I don’t think I have a choice here.
Morgan Sung: Sorry, you do not. Okay. So here’s a dramatic reading of some old man yaoi posted by X user. Aegonism. Aegonism, thank you for making my day. “Donald, please, let’s just talk about this,” Elon pleads, attempting to catch the other man’s eyes. But Donald rolls over in bed, presenting his back to him. The tension in the bedroom is suffocating, and Elon tries to take a deep breath, but it feels like he can barely get any air.
“There’s nothing to talk about,” Donald finally responds, flatly, and Elon is taken aback by his tone. He sounds so cold and distant. He doesn’t want to fight. He can feel tears welling up and he takes a moment to wipe his face before continuing, hoping Donald won’t notice his red rimmed eyes. “Don, this bill is bad for Tesla. You have to understand that.” Donald sighs heavily.
Maya Cueva: Oh my God, I literally have no words. I do admire the creativity though.
Morgan Sung: Again, one of the top 10 days on Twitter. This app is terrible, but there’s nothing that’s really taken its place for me. I get a lot of news from Reddit and Bluesky, funny posts from Tumblr, and Instagram is great for organizing and sharing resources, and honestly, good shitpost accounts. TikTok is up there with good content too, but there is nothing that quite has the same real-time, super fast memeability like Twitter does, and you’re definitely not getting the stuff on threads.
Maya Cueva: Okay, I feel like I am convinced now. So what are some of the other top meme days on Twitter?
Morgan Sung: Okay, just a recent years, Luigi.
Maya Cueva: Right.
Speaker 1: I do want to give a credit to Luigi Mangione
Morgan Sung: The Will Smith Oscar slap.
Chris Rock: Will Smith just smacked the shit out of me.
Morgan Sung: You remember that time that ship got stuck in the Suez Canal?
Maya Cueva: Oh yeah.
News Anchor 4: A giant container ship ran aground in the Suez Canal after losing power.
Morgan Sung: Or when President Biden dropped out of the presidential race.
Maya Cueva: Yeah.
News Anchor 5: President Joe Biden’s decision not to run for re-election.
Morgan Sung: Or JD Vance couch rumors, we remember that.
Youtuber You may be wondering why you’re seeing a ton of memes and posts about Donald Trump’s VP pick, JD vance, and his sectional relationship with his couch.
Maya Cueva: I do remember that and we did a story about it.
Morgan Sung: But my personal favorite day is right after the election back in 2020 when Rudy Giuliani hosted a press conference at Four Seasons Total Landscaping instead of the Four Seasons Hotel.
Chris Hayes: Now, there is, of course, a mystery that hangs over all this, which is how the press conference came to be held at Four Seasons Total Landscaping in the first place.
Maya Cueva: Oh my God, yes, I remember this! Okay, so I feel like I kind of get it. It’s the immediacy, right? But let’s get back to the bromance breakup, our Trump and Musk done for good?
Morgan Sung: Well, like any good breakup, it’s complicated. Musk actually ended up deleting some of his more incendiary posts, including the one about the Epstein files. Over the weekend, Trump told NBC News that their relationship was over and that he has no desire to repair it.
Maya Cueva: Ooof. Classic breakup. But it looks like Elon is the one missing Trump, but Trump is the one over it. And we’re all watching their reality TV show.
Morgan Sung: Yeah, exactly. Except, unlike Love Island-.
Love Island: Welcome to Love Island!
Morgan Sung: This reality show also has massive real world ripple effects, which are affecting real people. The state of democracy kind of rests on the whims of these two very powerful, very egotistical guys. But I will say that the tone has changed recently. Musk is screenshotting some of Trump’s Truth Social posts and reposting them on X, appearing to agree with him. So it seems like he’s trying to make amends.
Maya Cueva: Yeah, I think I did see that he was agreeing with Trump’s post condemning the protests against ICE raids in LA. I feel like we should get into that Morgan, right? In a new tab?
Morgan Sung: We definitely will. But before we do that, let’s take a quick break.
Morgan Sung: Okay, we’re back. New tab.
Morgan Sung: What’s happening in LA ??
Maya Cueva: Okay, so last month we did a two-part episode on the Surveillance State and how protesters and organizers are being identified and targeted.
News Anchor 1: 30-Year-old Rumeysa Ozturk was on her way to break her Ramadan fast when six plain-clothed officers approached her.
Maya Cueva: But Morgan, what’s going on where you are in Los Angeles?
Morgan Sung: If you hear any background noise right now, it’s probably the helicopters flying over my apartment. I’m not too far from the protests, and LAPD has been circling over the city all weekend. We’re recording this on Monday evening, and the protests are still going strong. But aside from where those demonstrations are happening, at least in the neighborhood I’m in, LA is unsettlingly quiet. It’s like people are afraid to go outside, especially as ICE continues to patrol the city. But again, this is why I’m still on Twitter. There’s a pretty well-established network of mutual aid groups and organizers sharing resources and information over there. A lot of it is on Instagram, but real-time updates are coming from Twitter.
Maya Cueva: Yeah, I’m seeing it all over my IG feed as well, but when did this all start?
Morgan Sung: So, it all started with a string of immigration raids on Friday, from a Home Depot to a clothing store downtown. And then people who appeared for their immigration check-ins were detained and taken to unknown locations.
News Anchor 2: The FBI, Homeland Security, and ICE agents performed a raid a couple of hours ago. We’re just now seeing some people that are being detained.
Morgan Sung: And remember, Los Angeles is a sanctuary city. City resources cannot be used for federal immigration enforcement, and the city is prohibited from sharing data with immigration authorities. It’s also worth noting that Los Angeles is a city of immigrants, something that a lot of the community takes pride in. So protests started that night, one outside an immigration detention center downtown and another in the fashion district where one of the ICE raids happened. At some point, they converged.
Protesters: Let them free, let them stay!
Morgan Sung: Law enforcement showed up in riot gear to disperse the crowds. But the protests spread on Saturday across downtown LA, Compton, and Paramount. Trump deployed at least 2,000 National Guard troops in Los Angeles, which Governor Newsom has called unlawful and a serious breach of state sovereignty. Law enforcement has used tear gas and pepper spray and flashbang grenades to try to disperse the crowds.
News Anchor 3: You told me you got caught up in the tear gas as well? Describe what happened to you.
Man on the street: Oh, just, uh, tasted a little tear gas. Tasted like fascism.
Morgan Sung: But it all really escalated on Sunday afternoon, which coincided with LA Pride. People were literally going straight from Pride events to the protests, demanding an end to ICE raids.
Protesters: Who’s got the power? We’ve got the power! What kind of power? People Power!
Morgan Sung: They even managed to shut down the freeway.
Protesters: Weirdo! Weirdos! Weirdo!
Morgan Sung: So the LAPD has deployed rubber bullets and surveillance drones in addition to the tear gas and flashbang grenades.
News Anchor 1: I think they’re going to push in from this side of the road.
Morgan Sung: And then there’s everything with Waymos.
Maya Cueva: Right, like a few months ago, we did an episode on the recent uptick in Waymo vandalism. And as a reminder, Waymos are the autonomous self-driving cars that operate in a few cities like San Francisco and Los Angeles. But Morgan, why don’t you walk us through what Waymos have to do with the protests?
Morgan Sung: Well, a bunch of Waymos happened to be nearby during the protests downtown. And amid the confrontation between law enforcement and protestors, those Waymos were tagged with anti-ICE messages and then set on fire, which went super viral. So there’s been a lot of discourse around Waymo vandalism and property damage during these protests. But I think it’s important to remember that Waymos have become representative of encroaching big tech, especially here in LA. There’s a lot of anger at the way that tech companies like Palantir are helping immigration enforcement.
Maya Cueva: Right, and plus there’s speculation that Waymos might be used as surveillance tools.
Morgan Sung: Exactly. 404 media recently reported that the LAPD has used footage obtained from a Waymo to investigate crimes. So a lot people are suspicious of autonomous vehicles right now.
Maya Cueva: Yeah, so what else is happening in LA?
Morgan Sung: Well, now the latest escalation is that the Trump administration is sending Marines to LA?
Maya Cueva: Yeah, I saw that. It really looks like a war zone.
Morgan Sung: Yeah, only around certain parts of L.A. But the president is posting through it on Truth Social. He’s called the protests “a riot.”
Maya Cueva: Wow, I haven’t seen any of that because I’m not on Truth Social, but does this bring us back to Elon Musk?
Morgan Sung: Also not on Truth Social, but I did see screenshots on Twitter. And yes, one of the posts that Musk shared on Twitter, or X, calls for a ban on masks at protests.
Maya Cueva: And like we talked about in our surveillance series a few weeks ago, masks have become a staple at protests to avoid facial recognition.
Maya Cueva: That and also to reduce exposure to tear gas, pepper spray, and airborne viruses like COVID.
Maya Cueva: Yeah, but like we’ve seen in the student protests for Palestine over the last year, there’s been an effort to make protesters easier to identify.
Morgan Sung: Exactly. On Truth Social, Trump has also called for the arrest of anyone wearing a mask. So masking has become a real point of contention in these protests as activists demand that ICE agents and LAPD and other law enforcement officials also unmask when showing up to protests. This is a thing in Los Angeles especially. Activists have made an effort to identify ICE agents and publicize their names and faces so that anyone at risk of deportation knows who to avoid.
But now some conservative lawmakers are trying to penalize anyone who identifies a law enforcement officer. Republican Senator Marsha Blackburn recently proposed legislation that would punish people with up to five years in prison for identifying ICE agents. But, we’ll have to see how the protests unfold throughout the rest of the month. ICE operations in LA are supposed to continue for the next 30 days. But it is worth noting that the president’s social media posts aren’t like legal powers enshrined in the Constitution. They can’t enforce a mask ban just because he posted about it.
Maya Cueva: They can’t legally enforce that. But we’ve seen this administration do plenty of things they’re not supposed to do.
Morgan Sung: So true.
Maya Cueva: Right. Executive orders are quick to enact, and the justice system is really slow. And those things have real consequences for all of us. So, while Twitter memes are a nice distraction, let’s remember how serious this is.
Morgan Sung: Absolutely. I mean, I’m trying to curb my Twitter addiction, but between the memes and the important protest information, it’s just really hard to leave. Anyway, those were all our updates.
Morgan Sung: Thanks for joining, Maya.
Maya Cueva: Anytime Morgan, because I literally work here.
Morgan Sung: Speaking of protest information, if you do find yourself in a protest zone, stay safe. We’ll leave some links about protecting your digital privacy in the show notes. And it might be worth going back and listening to our two-part series called The Surveillance Machine. We’ll be back next week with part two of our series on Spotify. For now, let’s close all these tabs.
Morgan Sung: Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios and is reported and hosted by me, Morgan Sung. Our producer is Maya Cueva. Chris Egusa is our Senior Editor. Jen Chien is KQED’s Director of Podcasts and helps edit the show. Sound design by Maya Cueva. Original music by Chris Egusa. Additional music by APM. Mixing and mastering by Brendan Willard.
Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad and Alana Walker. Katie Sprenger is our Podcast Operations Manager. And Holly Kernan is our Chief Content Officer. Support for this program comes from Birong Hu and supporters of the KQED Studios Fund. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco Northern California Local.
Keyboard sounds were recorded on my purple and pink Dustsilver K-84 wired mechanical keyboard with Gateron Red switches.
If you have feedback, or a topic you think we should cover, hit us up at [email protected]. Follow us on instagram at “close all tabs pod.” Or drop it on Discord — we’re in the Close All Tabs channel at discord.gg/KQED. And if you’re enjoying the show, give us a rating on Apple podcasts or whatever platform you use.
Thanks for listening!
