Mark (Adam Scott) and Gemma (Dichen Lachman) aren’t the only people who go on a journey in Episode 7 of “Severance” Season 2. For “Chikhai Bardo” and all the impressionistic ways it dramatizes the tethers of love and grief that bind together these two Outies, the producers turned to cinematographer Jessica Lee Gagné for assistance in figuring out how the transitional moments between scenes would work visually. That collaboration, in turn, empowered Gagné to do something she did not think she would do on “Severance” or any other TV show: Direct an episode.
IndieWire reached out to Gagné about stepping into the director’s chair and maintaining the show’s sense of self through all the Severed iterations of Gemma we see. A big challenge was making the visions of her and Mark’s relationship in a time long past, one that feels as simultaneously familiar and impossible as memory, less of a departure and more of an evolution of the show’s existing visual grammar on glorious 35mm film.
But “Chikhai Bardo” pushed Gagné and the entire “Severance” production team in interesting directions, with a mix of more simplified setups and ambitious in-camera effects. The result is an episode that keeps us current with Lumon’s hopes for the world Gemma is going to “sire” while showing us just how much of a miracle the world where people can talk normally is — at least when there’s someone you love in it.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
IndieWire: With Episode 7, was there a moment that you knew you wanted to step into the director’s chair for this one?
Jessica Lee Gagné: Well, I don’t think that anyone knew. It was this kind of singular episode, I think, and [co-writer] Mark Friedman and I worked very closely together. He was like, “OK, obviously you’re very visual and good technically; let’s talk.” He wanted this to feel like a whirlwind and I was like, “I got you. I know how to do it.” That was the fun of it because we got to work on what scenes should be intercutting and all of that. It was such a beautiful collaboration, and [he] wasn’t afraid of it. That also made me not afraid of it. I feel like I was protected in the process by Ben and the other producers on the show.
But I never — I did not want to do this. I wasn’t interested in directing. I really blocked it, out of fear of not being good enough. If I do something, I have this deep-rooted thing inside of me about needing it to be perfect. And you can’t be a perfect director. It’s just not possible. So I felt directing was very, very scary. But then [the chance to direct] was offered to me at the beginning of prepping Season 2. I said no. Then I read the synopsis [of Episode 7], and I just really connected with it. I was like, “Wait wait wait. I think I’m supposed to do this episode. I think this one’s mine.”
I put everything I had in this and it was at the end of shooting the rest of the show, also, and of wanting the rest of the show to be good. Having to handle both of these partnerships with myself as my own DP and then with being Ben’s supportive partner — we finished with the flashbacks [at Mark and Gemma’s house], and they were actually shot at the house I was renting. So it was really personal.
I love that idea of a whirlwind for this episode, visually. Can you talk a little bit about those flashbacks and expanding the visual language of the show? How were you and Mark thinking about it and then where did you take it?
Mark brought up one of the references that meant a lot to me, and it’s this Belgian film called “Close.” The colors and the feeling of sun in that film was [important] — and Jane Campion’s “Bright Star” was a reference [for] this magical levity moment and this nostalgic feeling. There’s also this one photographer I love, Rinko Kawauchi, who does photos of just flowers and light and moons, just the things that are around us that we take for granted but are the symbols of life.
And to get to that, it was all about simplifying everything. I worked with another DP for the [shot on] film stuff, Max Goldman, who was so collaborative and easy for me to work with. We had such a beautiful dialogue between us and he gave me great ideas as well. [And we went] back to more of an indie-style of film; a more Belgian-style film, honestly. Even with the dinner scene, I didn’t do multiple sizes on everyone. It was just one shot per person, and we tried to do more single-camera work, and it was very simple. Because I was also dealing with the challenge of, OK, this flashback has to feel like it’s the same movie [as “Severance”], but it’s a whole different world.
I feel like the secret of that, if I put my cinematographer cap back on, is also in the framing, in a weird way. The way we compose on “Severance” is still there. Even though it’s not as offset, there is still that balance that we like to look for in frames.
Yeah, I think you do sort of feel it, especially in these extreme close-ups on hands and the blood going through the tubes and stuff like that. There’s still that kinda painful, observational focus that is “Severance.”
You know, I did say this to a couple of people, that I feel like in the first season of “Severance,” especially, we’re feeling through Mark and everything — whether it’s color, the sets, everything — comes from how he views the world. Then, in Season 2, we get bigger, but that layer is still there. Because everyone is severed, in a way. When you get to this episode, [it’s] what life was before [Mark] didn’t allow himself to feel, you know? This is when he was open as a human.
Yeah, I think you feel that even in just the quality of the image. This is a person who is doing better. Can I ask just, technically, about how you went with film?
Well, I wanted to shoot 2-perf [35mm film] just for it to be economical and because I wanted the texture of the film to come out. So we didn’t go for anamorphic 4-perf, we went for spherical 2-perf and kept it really simple. I keep going back to the word simple because “Severance” is so lush. Even though it’s an office thing, the image is really rich and this was a different texture. I wanted something very tactile and physical and playful, also.
What shooting on film does to a film set is also a big part of it, changing the dynamic on set and the way that we approach the shot. Everyone has to be on their toes. There were so many times we were [racing] against the sun setting, but that was so much fun. And there’s stuff that’s built into the camera.
We actually did that big, wraparound time-lapse shot — which was like photography, basically — in camera. When we got to the end and back to live motion, we rewound the film like you do in school. If you stop the frame, you’ll see Gemma’s red dress fade away, and then it becomes the dinner scene. There’s no cut in the edit. It’s all overlap. I was like, “Maybe I should have just done this in post,” but Ben always pushes for us to do things in camera, so I was like, “Let’s go for it.” It doesn’t get more film school-y than that.
Wow. Especially because “Severance” is a show — and I so appreciate this about y’all — that wants to make shots last and make them count. So for something to be that photographic and feel that ephemeral feels like the perfect way to do that moment.
Gagné: It’s — yeah. It’s the perfect medium. That’s all I have to say.
I’d love to ask about sound. It’s such another cool, interesting bit of texture, and I’m curious what it was like for you to work on stuff you might not necessarily be knitting together as the DP.
The sound is one of the things I’m most excited about the episode because when we’re shooting it, you’re not necessarily thinking about it, you know? On “Severance,” a lot of the sound work happens later, and [on Episode 7] I got to work with the sound design team and to be in the mix and to walk them through what I was trying to do in the episode because it was so different. When I watched the mix, I was so moved. Because when you have sound, it’s the moment as a director that you feel the most. I cried at the end. I just couldn’t believe that I got the opportunity to make this and it actually held up.
And the texture that they brought to the flashback scenes was this analog sound — I never said, like, “Make it analog!” or whatever; I just wanted it to be simpler. But they [used] what sound sounded like before we had all these digital versions of movies, this very restricted sound space that’s more tactile. That blew my mind.
All of the different Severed rooms are awful and amazing, too. Can you talk about bringing these different flavors of claustrophobia and horror to them with Dichen?
What was very interesting about working with Dichen and for her to create this character — every room is a different personality. Every room, her life experience is so different. You have to put yourself in the shoes of someone who is basically living these different things — the original ideas for the rooms came from Dan Erickson. He was like, “What are the things that I or that people hate?” The dentist. Flying.
The Christmas card thing, I think, is a personal thing for him, and [in that room], what was so interesting to me was the opportunity to make Gemma rebellious. I feel like you have to be like a teenager that’s pissed off because this guy is kind of trying to be nice — he had a whole different personality in that room, and they always fed off of each other quite a bit, which was really fun to play with, because he could be so fricking annoying and weird and trigger her. It’s seeing what will come out. In that specific scene, she got to play the angry teenager, which ultimately is when she rebels and something pushes him over the line.
Right, it sets her up to run. Reflecting on the episode, are there any director muscles you’d be excited to stretch again or that have informed you as a DP? Anything you realized out of it?
Well, realizing that what I really want is to direct.
Hell yeah.
Yeah, I think I’m pretty much stepping away from cinematography in fiction. It was a personal journey, for me. I wouldn’t change a thing from my career. I’m incredibly proud of the work I’ve done and the people I’ve gotten to work with. I feel really grateful. And those 15 years of being a cinematographer and working with all the directors and crews I’ve worked with have made me who I am and the type of director I will be. I’m embracing it and I’m just going into the dark without knowing what’s going to happen.
“Severance” Season 2 releases new episodes every Friday.
