SPOILER WARNING: This story discusses multiple plot developments in “Captain America: Brave New World,” currently playing in theaters.
When director Julius Onah called Variety on Feb. 13, he was in New York, in transit between promotional events for his Marvel Studios film “Captain America: Brave New World.” The day before, he had a packed day of press opportunities in Washington, D.C. — the main setting for film’s confrontation between the new Cap, Sam Wilson (Anthony Mackie), and the new American president, Thaddeus “Thunderbolt” Ross (Harrison Ford). The day before that, Onah was at the film’s world premiere in Los Angeles, where life-size statues of Wilson and Ross’ crimson alter ego, Red Hulk, glowered at each other in front of the TCL Chinese Theater.
It had been, in other words, a whirlwind few days for the 42-year-old filmmaker, following a marathon three years working on the film. That included extensive additional photography in 2024 that replaced several sequences with new ones featuring Giancarlo Esposito as Sidewinder, leader of the mercenary group the Serpent Society, though Onah insisted the reshoots were “planned from the very beginning.” (Disney did, however, push the film’s release from July 2024 to February 2025.)
The director also defended Ford from an allegation by an anonymous “Brave New World” crew member recently published by Vulture that the star was “very much a diva” on set and “hated” the motion capture process to perform as Red Hulk.
“Look, I can’t speak to anything that anybody is speculating on or speaking about off the record,” Onah said. “All I can speak to is my experience with Harrison. He was an utter professional. He is a guy who’s incredibly serious and passionate about the work. The creative process is one where you have these really meaningful and, at times, passionate conversations, but it was always working towards a target where we were making the best version of the film possible. I think Harrison gave a phenomenal performance in the film. I was so honored to work with him. I learned so much from him, and the entire cast has nothing but love and respect for him, and the crew as well. That’s the experience I had in the making of this film, and that’s the truth of what our filmmaking was on set.”
Ford replaces the late William Hurt, who originated the role of “Thunderbolt” Ross in 2008’s “The Incredible Hulk” — a film that is referenced extensively throughout “Brave New World” as Sam’s investigates why his mentor, super soldier Isaiah Bradley (Carl Lumbly), attempted to assassinate Ross at an international summit at the White House. Onah discussed why it was important to evoke one of Marvel Studios’ earliest movies, including a cameo by Liv Tyler as Ross’s estranged daughter, Betty. He also talked about the surprise appearance of Sebastian Stan’s Bucky Barnes, the introduction of adamantium to the Marvel Cinematic Universe, why the film doesn’t include Ross’ vice president, and the original scenes that the reshoots with Esposito replaced.
Director Julius Onah, Xosha Roquemore, and Anthony Mackie on the set of “Captain America: Brave New World.”
Eli Adé / Marvel Studios
This movie references several past Marvel projects, especially “The Incredible Hulk,” which came out 17 years ago. What were the discussions like about how you much you wanted to call back to that movie?
Certainly, there were callbacks that were necessary just to tell the story. A big part of this movie is this idea of being able to change, so you needed to reorient the audience on who Ross was as “Thunderbolt” Ross, this guy who was prone to fits of rage and was estranged from his daughter, Betty Ross. But the key for it, for me, was the movie is through the point of view of Sam Wilson trying to uncover the mystery of who might be manipulating Isaiah Bradley to try to assassinate President Ross.
Making it an investigation from Sam’s point of view ends up being the way that you find details from that “Incredible Hulk” movie — and then also put Sam in this challenge of sifting through this investigation and leaning into his superpower of empathy and whether or not he’s able to see past his own blind spots when it comes to Thaddeus Ross.
Was the scene with Bucky, who was partnered with Sam in the 2021 Disney+ series “The Falcon and the Winter Soldier,” always in the script?
There was always going to be a scene calling back to Sam’s history [in the MCU], and there were a few different permutations of it. Bucky has always been there from the first draft that I was involved with, but in slightly different positions in the movie. The question just became what’s the most interesting and surprising way to see him? At some points, he was there in the very beginning of the movie. At some points, it was just at the very end of the movie. But then ultimately [the scene] became something that is a really fun surprise and also an emotional moment that helps move Sam along in his story. I think that we landed on a place that was really fun and exciting and emotional.
Who came up with the idea that Bucky is running for Congress?
[Laughs] Well, you know, I’m not privy to every element of what’s going on in the MCU. What I will say is, obviously Bucky is attached to the “Thunderbolts*” movie. I think with all of these films, there’s what’s been present in publishing, but the MCU is always trying to surprise and redefine these characters. There’s an element as well of Bucky’s character going through these changes and trying to redefine himself from what we expected of a guy who used to be a Hydra-controlled assassin. So I think they were leaning into a fun, unexpected way to put Bucky on a surprising journey — and that’s where it landed.
I presume he’s running to represent a district in New York City?
I would say maybe that’s a safe presumption.
It sounds like you discussed bringing other people from Sam’s past back, like Rhodey or Sharon Carter?
It’s always fun just to think about the amazing range of characters he’s interacted with. Even Ant-Man, they have a really fun history and very specific scene in that first “Ant-Man” film. Granted, Paul [Rudd] did not end up in the movie. There was a very specific line that that I had written in a scene toward the end of the movie that, for me, was a fun joke that was also a callback to that relationship. Sometimes it’s a visual appearance, and sometimes there’s just subtle ways our character can say something that speaks volumes.
How did the depiction of Celestial Island from “Eternals” evolve in the script?
Celestial Island was always going to be a part of this story, because it was a fun way to explore the larger geopolitical ramifications of a gigantic space alien being emanating from the Indian Ocean. The key was to not have it be something that drowns out or overwhelms the movie, but to arrive at it in a way that felt organic. So again, Sam’s investigation is what ultimately takes us there.
How did adamantium get introduced into this movie?
Obviously, we are seeing characters from the X-Men universe become integrated into the MCU. We just saw that with “Deadpool and Wolverine.” But adamantium does not exist yet in the MCU. Because Captain America movies are a great way to establish the reality of this universe, we were all discussing how fun and surprising would it be to use [adamantium] as a geopolitical football — not just make it, you know, the most obvious iteration that you might have seen with Wolverine.
Did you ever think about going onto the island itself?
We did. We played with a few versions of that, but you never want to overwhelm the movie with too many elements that aren’t necessarily moving forward the story in the way you want. But the destination of the movie ultimately had to come full circle back to DC, where we first met Sam and the Winter Soldier, where obviously Ross is now president, where in proximity of DC, Baltimore, Isaiah’s story began. That really felt to me like the correct emotional and thematic place.
How did you talk with Harrison Ford about his panic attack scenes? He really threw himself into it.
Harrison is so committed. I went to his house very early on in the process, and we talked quite a great deal about what it would mean to have Thaddeus Ross backslide into who used to be. We meet him in the beginning of the movie, and you imagine this is guy who’s wizened and mellowed out. Then thinking about that temper, that anger, as things keep foiling his plans to create this treaty to fairly distribute adamantium around the world. He had to start losing control. We talked about what the physicality of that would look like, how that rage would emanate. Harrison, what’s great about him is you have these conversations, and then he finds it in the moment, in the scene, what feels organic when he’s in that space. So it was prep and then trusting the man — of course, how can you not trust Harrison Ford?
Was there ever a version of the story where Ross dies?
You explore many different iterations of it. There was never a version where he explicitly died, but there were certainly versions of it where maybe the public didn’t know what his fate was after what happens towards the end of the film. But I think you’re introducing such a massive fan favorite character, and, as we all know, it’s not very easy for a Hulk to perish.
Courtesy of Marvel Studios
Did you ever talk about revealing who the vice president is, so we know who succeeds Ross?
Those conversations happen from time to time. But when you’re telling a story like this, you don’t want to throw 900 characters at the audience. This was simply a case of there were enough different balls up in the air that staying focused on that relationship between Sam as Captain America and Thaddeus Ross as our president felt essential. Ultimately, we decided, let’s not delve into that. It wasn’t too pertinent to how this story was being told from an emotional, thematic standpoint.
Do you know who the vice president is? Was that officially decided?
[Laughs] Let’s see where that’s going to go as we as we advance in this crazy universe of the MCU.
Was Betty Ross always going to show up at the very end?
Again, much like Bucky, as you go through the development process, there are different ways these characters can be introduced. There were versions of her showing up earlier in the movie, but it was very, very important to me that she arrived at the end of the film, because you have to think about what Ross is being deprived of. He is so desperate to reconnect with his daughter, so keeping her out of the story, having her be a presence hovering around the edges of the film, would make that sense of longing that Ross was having feel more potent.
How did Liv Tyler react to being back in the MCU?
Excited. For anybody who’s been a part of this world, you always wonder where your character has gone. I remember my early conversations with her, she was curious [and] a little nervous. They all have such ownership of these characters, too, so you want to make sure the characters are being honored the right way. And she loves Harrison. They talked about where these characters could have been over the years and then ultimately, she came in and was just such a wonderful presence in the movie.
How did the design for Samuel Sterns’ appearance evolve? He has a dramatic look in the comics, so how did you iterate that for the film?
You’re making a movie that is more grounded in terms of its visual aesthetic and style, so you want to make sure that even with these heightened characters, it fits into the world of the film. When you think about the arc of his character and the humanity that’s been taken away from him, there’s a monstrosity to him, and I really wanted to lean into that, so the moment you see him, you understand what’s propelling him as a character and his desire for retribution.
How did you physically make it real? Was the actor, Tim Blake Nelson, in a lot of makeup? Was some of it CGI?
We started off with an entirely practical version of it. You still see a lot of that practical work, in terms of prosthetics and paint stuff of that sort. It was great for Tim, because he’s very immersive in terms of what he likes to do as a performer. I remember one day on set, somebody jumped when they saw him. And then when we put it together in the movie, I wanted to push it even further, to make sure that that jump could come [over] on screen. So we did enhance with visual effects, just to push it to that edge of something that hopefully wasn’t too off-putting, but again, helped you understand emotionally what was driving him.
How did Giancarlo Esposito’s character, Sidewinder, get brought into the film?
This is another case of the grounded aesthetic and tone of the film. Serpent Society had always been a part of the story since I joined, but as you are probably well aware, in publishing, these characters dress up in snake-like outfits and have snake-like powers. Some of them are, you know, so over the top that they can even be a little bit cartoonish. As we were iterating through how to bring them into the MCU, we leaned into versions that were a bit more heightened and also versions that were a bit more grounded. We found that the more grounded version, though it didn’t have some of the really fun, cool stuff in publishing, just felt way more authentic to the film.
Going into our additional photography that we planned from the very beginning, we knew that would always be our opportunity to refine how the Serpent Society would work in the film. It just so happened that Giancarlo was available, and he’s literally one of my favorite actors. I started my career interning and working for Spike Lee. “Do the Right Thing” is one of the most important films to me as a filmmaker; I’ve lionized Giancarlo for a very long time. He also has a history with Anthony Mackie; they’ve been wanting to work together for a very long time. And of course, fans have been fan-casting him in the MCU. The great thing about Giancarlo is he can take things that could feel fantastical and make them feel grounded. It just felt we had like we triangulated on the perfect actor to be Sidewinder, to lead Serpent Society and to bring them into the MCU.
It sounds like the version of Serpent Society that you originally shot for the movie was more heightened and their powers were more fantastical?
Yeah, exactly. You always want to honor publishing. You always want to honor what the fans love, but at the same time you want to do what’s right for the movie. So I wouldn’t say it was ever what it was in the comics, but it leaned towards that a little bit more. As we got further in our process, it was just clear, this wants to sit in a [grounded] tone. I was trying to bring references like “The Day of the Jackal” and “Point Blank,” procedural, paranoid and political thrillers, and having a Serpant Society that felt more grounded would make more sense. So we started thinking about private military companies, thinking of this Sidewinder as a leader of a group that could be something of a combination between that and a warlord. That started to become really, really interesting.
Finally, if you could talk to the version of yourself when you were first starting to work on this movie, what advice would you give to yourself?
It’s something that I was already aware of, but nonetheless, I would probably take it to heart even more: “Just trust the process.” The great thing about making any movie is you need to keep yourself open to discovery. You need to keep yourself open to being surprised. Because if you’re surprised, the audience will be surprised. Movies are kind of an alchemy, and you find these amazing, interesting, surprising things when you stay open and let the inventive process help you create things that you might not get otherwise.
This interview has been edited and condensed.
